January 17, 2018, 07:04:35 am

Author Topic: cam timing  (Read 26824 times)

bif

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2007, 07:01:34 pm »
Far be it from me to dispute the details you have posted Svein,it seems to me that perhaps the simple method of all cams in on the T1-3 mark which works for all the models I have worked on 84thro86 may be the way forward for those of us less adept than yourself.
                           regards BIF

SveinT

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2007, 10:29:49 am »
Bif,
I'm far from beeing an expert,
but the explainations are based on Honda's own
workshop manuals, all the explanations on the
big SabMag forum www.v4hondabbs.com ,
and the V4 engine builder / oilmod developer Dave Dodge,
here's his words from feb 07 about this issue :
--------------------------------------------
I always install the rear cams at TDC 1-3 and align the lines on the
sprockets, and the front cams at TDC 2-4 and align the dots on the sprockets.
The only exception to this is the US VF1000R with gear driven cams, which
all 4 are installed per the manual at TDC 1-3. It is possible to install
all 4 cams on the other models at TDC 1-3 with the lines on the sprockets
aligned on all 4 cams, but it is not as accurate to determine proper
position of the cams to acheive the proper firing order.

Dave Dodge - DRP
--------------------------------
Btw, here's a note from Honda's own workshop manual, VF750F  :

CAUTION
If you force a valve open while installing the camshaft holders,
you may damage the holders or the camshaft bearing surfaces.
--------------------------------
It's also some interesting articles here :
http://users.metro2000.net/~cdc/magna/mcpage.htm
under the section "Technical Sections And Issues" > "Cams"


I have modified one of my pics to
show the differences between "lines" and "dots"
http://www.honda-v4.com/sabmag/download/t1-3-02.jpg
On the very first 750's you must draw the "extra"
front cam installation dots yourself.

Regards Svein T., Skien, Norway.
V45 Sabre -83, V65 Sabre -84
www.honda-v4.com
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 08:58:46 pm by SveinT »
Regards Svein T., Skien, Norway.
V45 Sabre -83, V65 Sabre -84
www.honda-v4.com

Howardk

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2007, 09:48:02 pm »
The clymer manual is wrong.
All four cams are installed against T1-3

on the asembly line at Honda they dont have time(dont need to) to rotate the engin so only one timming mark is used .

 

BrianA

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2007, 07:45:02 pm »
hey guys, my name is brian, im currently living in orlando florida in the states, attending the motorcycle mechanics institute.. i bought my vf1000f about 3 years ago, it has 79,501 miles on it and im currently attempting a cam chain tensioner replacement on the front cylinders, so im kind of in the same boat as you guys.. im glad i found this post specially about the error in the clymer manual.. i was just talking to my instructors about that same timing problem and it just didnt make sence.. but anyways.. i have a question.. i set up my timing (which i now know to be incorrect since i was following the clymer manuals directions) and pulled the pin out of the tensioner to releave the springs tension, and it seems to have missed the chain.. atleast it isnt applying proper cam chain tension right now, the only thing i can think of is that i didnt have the slipper guide in the correct notch in the cylinder, i tryd using flash lights and extendable mirrors to see down in there but i couldnt see anything usefull when i was installing it, so i just did the best "by feel" job i could, any suggestions on properly installing the slipper guide? or ways i can find out if its in the notch before i pull the pin the next time? any help would be greatly appreciated

the best part about a harley carb is that its a honda (keihin is currently owned by honda)
the best part about a harley carb is that its a honda (keihin is currently owned by honda)

BrianA

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2007, 06:56:15 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by BrianA

hey guys, my name is brian, im currently living in orlando florida in the states, attending the motorcycle mechanics institute.. i bought my vf1000f about 3 years ago, it has 79,501 miles on it and im currently attempting a cam chain tensioner replacement on the front cylinders, so im kind of in the same boat as you guys.. im glad i found this post specially about the error in the clymer manual.. i was just talking to my instructors about that same timing problem and it just didnt make sence.. but anyways.. i have a question.. i set up my timing (which i now know to be incorrect since i was following the clymer manuals directions) and pulled the pin out of the tensioner to releave the springs tension, and it seems to have missed the chain.. atleast it isnt applying proper cam chain tension right now, the only thing i can think of is that i didnt have the slipper guide in the correct notch in the cylinder, i tryd using flash lights and extendable mirrors to see down in there but i couldnt see anything usefull when i was installing it, so i just did the best "by feel" job i could, any suggestions on properly installing the slipper guide? or ways i can find out if its in the notch before i pull the pin the next time? any help would be greatly appreciated

the best part about a harley carb is that its a honda (keihin is currently owned by honda)



the best part about a harley carb is that its a honda (keihin is currently owned by honda)
the best part about a harley carb is that its a honda (keihin is currently owned by honda)

BrianA

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2007, 07:08:07 pm »
err sorry about that rather pointless quote, i meant to include the update but im still trying to figure this thing out.. not to computer savvy... anyways... turns out the problem wasnt the tensioner at all, simply the cam timing, thanks guys

the best part about a harley carb is that its a honda (keihin is currently owned by honda)
the best part about a harley carb is that its a honda (keihin is currently owned by honda)

SveinT

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2007, 06:10:30 am »
BTW,
Honda's later manual for the -85 VF1000F and F-II has a better explaination for this issue than the first manual for the -84 VF1000F.   :-)

Regards Svein T., Skien, Norway.
V45 Sabre -83, V65 Sabre -84
www.honda-v4.com
Regards Svein T., Skien, Norway.
V45 Sabre -83, V65 Sabre -84
www.honda-v4.com

stephen

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2007, 04:08:07 pm »
well i opened a can of worms didnt i, my bike is back together but wont go cdi unit has packed in and iam having problems getting one
 

Mort955

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2007, 02:57:28 pm »
Hi
Bit of a deep one this seems. I've just rebuilt my engine but took the precaution of photographing and noting the cam positions before disassembly. As mentioned, the manuals are an embarrassment to the so called 'authors'. Funny as!
Sven's explanation is, I think, what I had but my cams look nothing like his examples on the ends and the photos are a little confusing with regard to his mark-up. What Sven was trying to say is as follows and is correct:


CAM TIMING VF1000F

1)   Both cam chain tensioner mechanisms must be retracted and locked with a length of wire. Ensure that the lower location foot of each tensioner blade is in its location slot in the crankcase.

2)   With all tappets screwed out as far as possible and nipped on their locknuts, from the left side of the engine turn crank to T1-3 setting and set the rear cylinder bank as follows:
Note: The cam sprocket bolts do not need to be loosened to do this procedure.
 
a)   Make sure the cam chain follows its chain guide so that there is no slack in the chain when you install the inlet cam. Any slack should be on the exhaust cam/crank side of the chain run.

b)   Put the inlet cam in its bearings so that its No.3 cam lobe is just leaning towards the exhaust cam position with the lines on the left side of the cam sprocket level with the head surface.

c)   Put the exhaust cam in its bearings so that its No.3 cam lobe is just leaning towards the inlet cam with the lines on the left side of the cam sprocket level with the head surface.

d)   Install the cam bearing caps and bolts and tighten by hand with a socket (not wrench) to locate them in position.

e)   Install the four bolts socket-tight at each cylinder bank to locate the cam chain tensioner mechanism in position.

f)   Install the oil pipe and install the bolts to a socket-tight location.

g)   Torque tighten the cylinder head/cam bolts to the specified torques:
9 mm = 31 – 34 Nm (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
8 mm = 15 – 18 Nm (9, 10, 11, 12)
6 mm = 7 -10 Nm.

h)   Torque tighten the four bolts at the cam chain tensioner mechanism (7 -10 Nm).

i)   Remove the locking wire/eqmt from each cam chain tensioner mechanism.

3)   From the left side of the engine, turn the crank anti-clockwise 90 degrees to align the T2-4 mark on the alternator rotor with the crankcase split line and set the front cylinder bank as follows:
Note: The cam sprocket bolts do not need to be loosened to do this procedure.
 
a)   Make sure the cam chain follows its chain guide so that there is no slack in the chain when you install the exhaust cam. Any slack should be on the inlet cam/crank side of the chain run.
 

b)   Put the exhaust cam in its bearings so that its No.4 cam lobe is pointing directly towards the inlet cam position with the solitary dots on the left side of the cam sprocket level with the head surface.

c)   Put the inlet cam in its bearings so that its No.4 cam lobe is pointing directly towards the exhaust cam with the solitary dots on the left side of the cam sprocket level with the head surface.

d)   Install the cam bearing caps and bolts and tighten by hand with a socket (not wrench) to locate them in position.

e)   Install the four bolts socket-tight at each cylinder bank to locate the cam chain tensioner mechanism in position.

f)   Install the oil pipe and install the bolts to a socket-tight location.

g)   Torque tighten the cylinder head/cam bolts to the specified torques.

h)   Torque tighten the four bolts at the cam chain tensioner mechanism (7 -10 Nm).

i)   Remove the locking wire/eqmt from each cam chain tensioner mechanism.

4)   Set the tappets as follows;

a)   With the plugs removed, turn the crank until a cam lobe tip is 180 degs from its valve actuator. Set the two tappet clearances to 0.005 in (0,012 mm).

b)   Do this for each cam lobe.

Best Regards
Trevor
 

stephen

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2008, 07:14:40 pm »
ITS GOING woophe!
 

TinyTim

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2008, 07:31:39 pm »
quote:
Originally posted by stephen

ITS GOING woophe!



Nice one Stephen...and what was the fix then eh?...I think this deserves a photograph matey.....[8D]
This time tomorrow it'll be yesterday

bif

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2008, 11:05:48 pm »
FYO the amendment to the honda manual was scanned in by PAJ and should be available further back in this string.Any problems get in touch and we will get it to you.This point has been well dicussed for both chain and gear driven cams.I always fit both sets on T1:3 mark
               regards BIF

stephen

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2008, 11:20:20 am »
just when you thought it was safe to go back into the sea the bloody carbs are playing up starts fine then petrol poors out of the vent pipe looks like a needle valve is stuck, iam beging to hate this bike.
 

stephen

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2008, 12:31:08 pm »
well its going on the road on saturday all done what a headache its been if it puts one foot wrong its going
 

burbrew

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Re: cam timing
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2010, 07:56:10 pm »
i havnt read all the replies so you may have the answer already but if it helps all cam marks should align on the 1-3 magneto mark.. as i understand and have done. the 2-4 marks are for tappet setting yes i agree the manual states that you rotate the crank anti clockwise but as youve already state it locks the engine up. hope it helps