November 20, 2017, 01:37:58 pm

Author Topic: project vf1000ff/fe  (Read 27330 times)

vf1000f.24

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2014, 10:23:53 am »
Pete,I guess the previous owners of your bike did let the engine warming on the side stand with a low oil level... It's a very common problem on Honda's but also on all the modern bikes without center stand.
Nothing can stop my VF, not even it's rear brake!

ajcmbrown

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2014, 10:29:39 am »
Good point Fred.
1985 VF1000FF
2005 KLX400R,
1977 Honda XR75,
1997 Honda QR50.

vf pete

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2014, 10:33:27 am »
well fred, you learn something new everyday, i've heard people say you shouldn't let bikes tic over on the side stand, but never really thought too much about it..
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vf1000f.24

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2014, 05:26:57 pm »
It's a very common issue on the Kawasaki of the Ninja generation with cam chain on the left side. It's quite easy to understand:on tic over,the oil presure in marginal and,thanks to the weird oil circuit on our bikes,the already limited oil flow submitted to the universal gravity follows the bike's inclination and neglects the right hand side of the engine...   :-X
Nothing can stop my VF, not even it's rear brake!

ajcmbrown

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2014, 01:30:12 am »
Yes Fred, it makes perfect sense when you think about it.
I must admit that I haven't t put much thought into that either since most of my bikes have been singles.
I imagine it would magnify the problem if the oil level was low too.
1985 VF1000FF
2005 KLX400R,
1977 Honda XR75,
1997 Honda QR50.

Marmite

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2014, 09:33:16 am »
Hi Pete, just caught up on this thread. Been bumbling round Normandy, France with my mate on a Norton 16H and an AJS 350 single - bloody marvellous.
Anyway, back to your woes.  Could it be that it was left on the side stand whilst "stood up" for those 20 years.  The oil would have slowly drifted south i.e. to the left of the engine leaving the highest point unprotected and therefore open to attack from acid etc from fuel and old oil - which we know both contain this horrible, bearing destroying stuff ?  Just another consideration for the pot. 
 

vf pete

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2014, 11:23:50 am »
Hi martin,
Its alright for some, just go swanning off round france when ever you like... what a life  ;D

it could be, i don't think anything mechanical benefits from being stood for years, to be honest the the slight wear on the bearings isn't a big concern, its within the bounds of wear and tare, probably helped along by the side stand issue fred mentioned,  i've only decided to change them because they were slightly less in-spec than the others and i don't fancy opening this engine up again.

I think what you have suggested is a good point, after all the cams are just cast steel, and the rockers are cast steel with a hard chromium type coating on... (and we all know what happens to fork legs..)  , will be taking the cams down to SEP Kegworth to see what they think, i suppose that will blow the house keeping.... bread and jam for dinner all this month  :(

I'm pretty confident this engine will be a good one when its sorted, there's lots of stuff inside there thats good, more in-spec and looks better than some of the internals of my other engins.. :P
 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 11:30:57 am by vf pete »
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vf pete

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2014, 10:03:09 pm »
had a run out to sep kegworth with my not so pitted cams, you can see from the pics that the top one is worst affected (front inlet).. bit of pitting on the next one down, the bottom 2 are pretty reasonable-ish, any way ive left them in there capable hands to work there magic on them, the guy i was speaking to there says they now have a process to remove and re-apply the hard coating to the rocker arms, £20/£25 per rocker, which has got to be good news for any vf enthusiast.
after dropping the cams off, i had a run through to earls performance parts at Silverstone, they've made me a set of oil lines up with a bigger bore for the top end oiling kit, i was a little bit skeptical about the size of the original oil lines, the original banjo ends don't look any bigger than brake hose one's,
the upgraded oil system on the FF has larger diameter "H" shaped oil pipes, and the oil feed hole in the back of the cam cap is probably twice the size of the original FE one, Honda obviously thought it needed a little more oil..so i'm going to give it some  :)





the FF cam cap and original top end oiling kit hose end, the bore on the hose is only just bigger than the cam cap hole, and it has 4 of those to feed.


the new hose end


top end oiling kit with new larger diameter hoses.
       
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 01:09:01 am by vf pete »
:o.. Oh Feck..... Think I Got It Wrong Again.. :o

ajcmbrown

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2014, 01:33:11 am »
Hope it all goes well Pete.
1985 VF1000FF
2005 KLX400R,
1977 Honda XR75,
1997 Honda QR50.

vf1000f.24

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2014, 07:59:01 am »
Hi Pete,
That will do the trick! How much did they charge for the bigger hose?
Nothing can stop my VF, not even it's rear brake!

vf pete

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2014, 12:13:23 pm »
hi tony,

i hope it goes well too, i dont think you can go too big on the hoses only too small as the oil pressure/volume to the cams looks to me like its regulated by the size of the oil hole in the cam cap, after that point the oil flows into the oil gap between cam and cam cap, but most will go into the cam and out through the cam lobe hole... well that's my theory anyway.

there's one thing for sure, my original top end oiler hoses are more restrictive than the old original vf rigid pipe work, i did a test with both coupled up to my fe engine, did three 8 to 10 second bursts on the starter motor and collected the oil, the original rigid pipe work allowed twice the amount of oil through....thats why i removed the top end oiler from my FE, I'm not an engineer or a mechanic, my experiment may be flawed in some way, the people who designed these original kits know far more about oiling systems than i do, I do sometimes wonder though, the original kits were (i think) designed for the vf750 and early vf1000 interceptor (fe) which would have been fitted with cam caps with the smaller oil hole's in them, did any of the many top end oiler manufacturers up the size of the pipe work when honda increased the oil flow capacity through to the cams on the ff and probably RF models.

hi Fred,
the pipe work came to £50 and included the blue straight and 90 degree connectors, i took my pipe work through to them as i couldn't explain to them over the phone what i needed, they made the pipework up while i was there, the pipe size is -4 on there size chart, which was the next size up.
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vf pete

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2014, 09:22:20 pm »
rebuilt as much of the engine as i can, just got to wait for my cams to return,
the rear head needs a good clean up, will remove and re-lap the valves, new stem seals. already done the front head.

:o.. Oh Feck..... Think I Got It Wrong Again.. :o

vf1000f.24

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2014, 02:19:02 pm »
Nice!I'll have to do the same on my VF1000F/G engine as soon as the engine rebuild of our Honda CR V will be finished...
Nothing can stop my VF, not even it's rear brake!

vf pete

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2014, 10:51:01 pm »
spent an hour mooching around in the garage this afternoon looking for something interesting to do, looked at the part rebuilt engine.. "nope, nothing to be done on that till my cams return",
so decided to attack some of the paint work, i was originally going to try mask the decals up and spray around them, but on reflection i don't think that's going to work very well, the matching red/black FE nose cone fairing wont fit properly on the FF anyway,  it doesn't have a cutout on the left hand side for the radiator hose, fortunately i have a left hand FF piece, so its going to be a pick and mix fairing. the tail unit also needs a bit of repair. so the plan is now to get everything flatted off, repaired and primed, by that time i should have made my mind up on a colour scheme (i like the red/black.......but don't like the idea of spending 100 smackers on a decal kit  :-[)
So decided to start on the petrol tank as its probably going to be the most work as it needs de-rusting too,
had read an article in practical sports bike about de-rusting the tank with bicarbonate of soda and electrickery, which sounds good to me, none of that filling it full of nuts and bolts and using it like a giant cocktail shaker

Tank filled up to brim with bicarbonate of soda and water, battery and battery charger on


After about 10 minutes, it was fizzing away like a coca-cola  ;D

 

     
:o.. Oh Feck..... Think I Got It Wrong Again.. :o

vf1000f.24

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Re: project vf1000ff/fe
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2014, 08:08:56 am »
 :o It as the same colour as the original Coca-Cola. Does it taste the same?
Nothing can stop my VF, not even it's rear brake!